Florida Shooters Network

I made this post on another board in regards to EDC firearms and ammo capacity. We've briefly discussed this a while back, on the old board but I wanted to toss it on here for discussion.

A few years before I retired our agency conducted an off-duty carry combat course. You used your authorized off-duty weapon in a series of combat drills derived from actual off-duty situations from around the country i.e. drills were taken from real life situations that off-duty Officers/Deputies/Troopers had faced. Active shooter situations in big box retail stores, hostage situations, lone wolf terrorist attack, moving, running, barricades etc.

One thing became apparent rather quickly, capacity does matter. Yes, many stats floating around of 2 shots per average gun fight. The validity of those stats should be taken with a grain of salt. And often they only consider two people involved rather than multiple attackers. I went through the course with two of the Deputies on my shift. I used an HK P30sk with a 10-round mag with +2 base plate in the pistol and a 15-round P30 mag as my spare mag. Our agency 'strenuously' encouraged carrying a spare back up mag. One of my buddies carried a G26 with 10-round mags and G19 back up mag. My other buddy carried a Walther PPS with, IIRC, a 7-shot mag in the pistol and 7-round back up mag. Halfway through the course he stated that he needed to qualify with a different pistol. He ended up later qualifying with a G19.

The reason was simple, higher capacity is better than lower capacity. And yes, lots of real world gun fights only require a small number of rounds fired. But some don't. Since you don't get to pick and choose which kind you might find yourself in it's best to 'hope for the best and prepare for the worst' with the caveat that it needs to be within reason.

For me, the Sig P365 with 12-round magazine in the pistol and a 12-round mag as a spare is a nice compromise of size, weight, thickness, comfort and capacity. It's small, but I've trained with it and have confidence in my ability to use it. It was my authorized off-duty the last year or two of my career. Also in my carry rotation (for when I just feel like a change) is my G26 with G19 mag and Xgrip and spare G19 mag, HK P30sk with 12-round mag and 15-round spare mag or HK USPc in 40 S&W with 12-round mag and 12-round spare. I'll carry a third spare mag in my EDC sling bag. It's not as readily accessible but it's small/light enough to simply toss in the bag I'm going to have with me anyway. So for me, 12+1 rounds immediately accessible in the pistol is pretty much my lowest acceptable capacity. And all of those pistols, with the exception of the USPc were my authorized off-duty carry pistol at one time or another so I'm well trained with them. As far as the USPc, it's about the same size as the G19 and G23 I've also carried off-duty in years past. So I have confidence in my ability to use the USPc even though it wasn't my 'official' off-duty carry at any time (I actually didn't buy it until after I retired).

Now I will carry my LCP 380acp around the house/yard or on those rare occasions where I'm all dressed up and pocket carry is pretty much the only viable option. That's where the mantra of 'it's better to have a small pistol of limited capacity than no pistol at all' comes into play. But I'll carry a spare mag in an Ammo Armor case in my pocket. Is it ideal? No. But it does allow me to be armed when other choices aren't as practical.

You make some good points. I would comment on the statistics, that much of what is written on tactics is backward-looking, by which I mean looking at past events. Of course that's the only way to be factual, looking at real events. Going forward, I think we are facing a new tactical environment. Sure, the occasional sucker-punch, but the "flash-mobs" are something new. Right now, some which occurred recently left customers/bystanders alone, and they simply robbed the store or roughed-up an employee. But, in this current revolutionary environment that can change. The old wisdom of the 1960s, carry "mug-money", comply and you'll be ok is over. People will kill you simply to avoid reporting of the crime, and identification. No more one on one, it's groups, with backups hiding.

REDinFL wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:20 am You make some good points. I would comment on the statistics, that much of what is written on tactics is backward-looking, by which I mean looking at past events. Of course that's the only way to be factual, looking at real events. Going forward, I think we are facing a new tactical environment. Sure, the occasional sucker-punch, but the "flash-mobs" are something new. Right now, some which occurred recently left customers/bystanders alone, and they simply robbed the store or roughed-up an employee. But, in this current revolutionary environment that can change. The old wisdom of the 1960s, carry "mug-money", comply and you'll be ok is over. People will kill you simply to avoid reporting of the crime, and identification. No more one on one, it's groups, with backups hiding.

I highlighted the portions of your post that really stand out. The landscape has changed and there are dangers present now that didn't exist, to this extent, in the past. With the advent of social media, a riot or flash mob can be coordinated quickly and you can find yourself in the middle of it. Always best to be prepared.

It's a real shame there even has to be a discussion of how commonplace the riot thinking has become. Sure, there were gangs in the past. But, they were limited in number and scope. Today, even otherwise ordinary people are ready to jump to do the worst, at a word. I don't bother people or knowingly create a hassle. I will apologize if something real happens that is my fault. But, I will not be bothered or assaulted, either; no, it's not something I accept because of past-guilt (I haven't any, and here's where people usually make excuses, but I make none). But, I used to carry a S&W CS9, now I carry an M&P.

REDinFL wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:53 am It's a real shame there even has to be a discussion of how commonplace the riot thinking has become.

It's by design and is an assault on our liberties. Better to be prepared because these days you don't know if/when something will kick off.

So in these time does anyone else carry with a spare mag?

Deputydave wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:42 pm So in these time does anyone else carry with a spare mag?

Always. GARY.

Deputydave wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:42 pm So in these time does anyone else carry with a spare mag?

Always, without question.

I always carry a spare mag. I subscribe to the theory of better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

SY

while waiting on some new holsters for my g48 and p365xl I've been carrying a fnx45 which has a 15rd mag and a spare 15rd mag. So 30 rds of 45 should be sufficient for me.