Could this be the real reason Trump doesn't want to leave?

[hotspur]

Could it be that he dare not lose the legal protection the presidency gives him? Could it be that once he's an ordinary citizen again, he'll be dodging lawsuits left, right, and center? Civil suits from women he allegedly groped, fondled, and banged? Criminal prosecutions over alleged tax shenanigans? Not saying this is so, just asking the question.

[Flame Red]

No.

[Firemedic2000]

No also

[Springfield]

I'm thinking Trump's best move it to pardon all those who deserve it, then resign a few days before Inauguration and let Pence pardon him. Would shelter Trump and allies from Fed persecution, although NY state AG and other States can still go after him.

[tector]

I'm thinking Trump's best move it to pardon all those who deserve it, then resign a few days before Inauguration and let Pence pardon him. Would shelter Trump and allies from Fed persecution, although NY state AG and other States can still go after him.

I raised this scenario a few days ago. It's the logical move (if Pence is willing to go along). However right now Trump is thrashing around in a prolonged fit of illogic. He has promoted many good policies, and good judicial appointments, but let's face it--his malignant personality is his own worst enemy. And at this point it is devolving to only his cult of personality followers still hanging on. Everybody else knows the score. He is becoming the Sixth Army at Stalingrad now.

If he REALLY wanted to be useful to the nation, he'd dropped the nonsense and get down to Georgia and rally the the troops--losing the Senate would be a fucking disaster that would allow the good parts of his legacy to be largely undone. But he is too much of a narcissist to do so, apparently.

[dammitgriff]

Isn’t a conviction for a crime required before a pardon is even possible?

[tector]

Isn’t a conviction for a crime required before a pardon is even possible?

No. Google up 1974, youngster.

[dammitgriff]

I recall reading Calley was pardoned by Nixon for his conviction in the My Lai fiasco during the Vietnam War. Who was the last individual to be pardoned by the president before conviction?

[photohause]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/200 ... crime.html


Pre-emptive Presidential Pardons
Can you be pardoned for a crime before you’re ever charged?

By JACOB LEIBENLUFT JULY 21, 20086:36 PM



With six months to go before President Bush leaves office, the White House is receiving a flurry of pardon applications. The New York Times reported that “several members of the conservative legal community” are pushing for the White House to grant pre-emptive pardons for officials involved in counterterrorism programs. Wait—can a president really pardon someone who hasn’t even been charged with a crime?

Yep. In 1866, the Supreme Court ruled in Ex parte Garland that the pardon power “extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.” (In that case, a former Confederate senator successfully petitioned the court to uphold a pardon that prevented him from being disbarred.) Generally speaking, once an act has been committed, the president can issue a pardon at any time—regardless of whether charges have even been filed.


As the Explainer has pointed out before, there aren’t many limits to the president’s pardon power, at least when it comes to criminal prosecutions under federal law. The president’s clemency power has its origins in the practices of the English monarchy, and as a result, the Supreme Court has given the president wide leeway under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution. There are some exceptions: The chief executive can’t pardon someone for a violation of state law or nullify a civil ruling, and his power doesn’t extend to convictions handed down in an impeachment proceeding. (It’s also not clear whether the president can pardon himself for future convictions.)

While pre-emptive pardons remain very rare, there are a few notable exceptions. Perhaps the most famous presidential pardon of all time occurred before any charges were filed. Gerald Ford’s pardon of Richard Nixon absolved the former president of “all offenses against the United States which he … has committed or may have committed or taken part in” between the date of his inauguration in 1969 and his resignation in August 1974. In other cases, presidents have pardoned individuals after criminal proceedings have begun but before a judgment has been handed down. In late 1992, less than a month before leaving office, President George H.W. Bush pardoned former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, who had been indicted earlier that year on perjury charges surrounding the Iran-Contra affair. (A lawyer for Roger Clemens’ former trainer Brian McNamee claimed the pitcher might receive a similar pardon from Bush if he were ever indicted.) In addition, broad presidential amnesties—like the one President Carter issued to those who had avoided the draft during the Vietnam War—are essentially pre-emptive pardons issued to a large group of individuals.


If someone hasn’t yet been charged with a crime, how does the president know what to pardon them for? As in Nixon’s case, President Bush could issue a pardon that applies generally to any crimes that may have been committed within a certain range of dates. More likely, a pardon could apply only to actions surrounding a single policy or place—say, the detention or interrogation of suspected al-Qaida members.

Got a question about today’s news? Ask the Explainer.

[dammitgriff]

Thank you, that’ll shut me up.