ATF proposing pistol brace registration

[P5 Guy]

4473
Doesn't the FFL destroy those forms after 20 years?

[MiamiOffshore]

A prominent South Florida FFL once told me the years required to hold on to the forms. I can't remember how many years it was but I remember it being far less than 20 (I could be wrong). This dealer told me he would NEVER destroy any even though the law allowed him to...

[Molivo]

For those who don’t know, the ATF does NOT know what guns you purchased.

When an FFL goes out of business the entity must handover ALL completed 4473's to the ATF. They are then kept at the headquarters and in recent years the overflow has them resorting to storage containers as the office is full. Ostensibly this is the reason they have altered the 4473's recently so that all the pertinent information is on one side of the form and thus easier to be scanned into a searchable PDF format.

As an FFL who's had to participate in trace requests, I can tell you the ATFs Out of Business Center is so rediculously disorganized theyd need 100 clerk's working 20 hours a day to make heads or takes of it.

[Molivo]

4473
Doesn't the FFL destroy those forms after 20 years?

By law they're legally allowed to. Doesn't mean they do.

[Orlando Paulitician]

Even if there were a record, I don't think the ATF would have the manpower to enforce it. There's hundreds of thousands of braces out in the market now, and only 1,700 sworn agents across the entire US.

for-profit Gun ranges will be the most effective part of any legal changes. They're the ones on the front lines, making sure the gun owners who visit are using their stuff legally (including not shouldering the brace, lmao).

they are probably just gonna prohibit them like bump stocks, wait, watch and see

food for thought there are no barrels or stocks out there anywhere for purchase, if you wanted to make it a rifle, so they know you will be in possession of an un registered sbr

Is it still illegal if you just take brace off? It would revert back to being a pistol, right?

[Lastrites]

Even if there were a record, I don't think the ATF would have the manpower to enforce it. There's hundreds of thousands of braces out in the market now, and only 1,700 sworn agents across the entire US.

for-profit Gun ranges will be the most effective part of any legal changes. They're the ones on the front lines, making sure the gun owners who visit are using their stuff legally (including not shouldering the brace, lmao).

they are probably just gonna prohibit them like bump stocks, wait, watch and see

food for thought there are no barrels or stocks out there anywhere for purchase, if you wanted to make it a rifle, so they know you will be in possession of an un registered sbr

Is it still illegal if you just take brace off? It would revert back to being a pistol, right?

While braces are currently still legal, if you remove yes it, it will still be legal "maybe" as their wrangling with all the objective opinion stuff such as length, weight and type of sights ect. This is more about designating what a pistol is than what a brace adds to the equation. At the moment one could still do the "Other/Firearm" category if you reach the 26"or > lingo.

[Springfield]

So the ATF is sayng it has not explicitly approved many of the pistol braces on the market, and some don't meet it's approval. But the ATF did explicitly approve the Sig brace, right? I have a copy of the letter that came with mine. So regardless of what they decide about other styles and brands, a Sig pistol with brace manufactured by Sig is still good, until/unless they explicitly rescind their letter to Sig, right?

[rentprop1]

yeah cause the ATF never changed their mind

[Orlando Paulitician]

they are probably just gonna prohibit them like bump stocks, wait, watch and see

food for thought there are no barrels or stocks out there anywhere for purchase, if you wanted to make it a rifle, so they know you will be in possession of an un registered sbr

Is it still illegal if you just take brace off? It would revert back to being a pistol, right?

While braces are currently still legal, if you remove yes it, it will still be legal "maybe" as their wrangling with all the objective opinion stuff such as length, weight and type of sights ect. This is more about designating what a pistol is than what a brace adds to the equation. At the moment one could still do the "Other/Firearm" category if you reach the 26"or > lingo.

I was under the impression the ATF was focused on braces, and not rifle-caliber pistols. I guess I'm mistaken?

Or, are you saying, as a matter of collateral damage due to ambiguous language, rifle-caliber pistols might get caught up in legal difficulties in addition to the braces?

If its a simple matter of braces becoming illegal, then removing them is a simple enough solution I imagine most would opt for.

[Chinerd00]

Is it still illegal if you just take brace off? It would revert back to being a pistol, right?

While braces are currently still legal, if you remove yes it, it will still be legal "maybe" as their wrangling with all the objective opinion stuff such as length, weight and type of sights ect. This is more about designating what a pistol is than what a brace adds to the equation. At the moment one could still do the "Other/Firearm" category if you reach the 26"or > lingo.

I was under the impression the ATF was focused on braces, and not rifle-caliber pistols. I guess I'm mistaken?

Or, are you saying, as a matter of collateral damage due to ambiguous language, rifle-caliber pistols might get caught up in legal difficulties in addition to the braces?

If its a simple matter of braces becoming illegal, then removing them is a simple enough solution I imagine most would opt for.

Pretty much:
Caliber
Length of pull
Magazine capacity ( because of overall weight)
Brace ( not being used properly )
Scopes
Bipod
And I'm sure there's a few I missed.
Like anything there's always going to be a way
To work around something we'll have to wait and see.