S&W model 60 and +p
S&W model 60 and +p
I recently called Smith&Wesson regarding the use of plus PMO in my model 60 which dates back about 26 years. I’m trying to figure out why I shouldnt shoot +P also but they say no and were kind of vague in the answer. It must have something to do with the internals because when you compare the model 60 all stainless with the airweight 642 which can shoot +P. Any input, thanks. Mav.
It's a liability thing that S&W's lawyers insist on.
Here's a discussion on the topic from another forum almost 10 years ago:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... on.629666/
Here's a discussion on the topic from another forum almost 10 years ago:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... on.629666/
Thanks man, that info solidified my thoughts, much appreciated. I feel confident enough that a +P round or two would be OK. I also feel confident enough that today’s 38 special hollow points should be enough to do the job but I needed someone else’s thoughts on the matter. Mav
I wouldn't worry about shooting occasional +P rounds and carrying it with +P rounds in a model 60.
I bet I've shot over 200 rounds of factory Winchester 158gr SWC-HP +P in each of my old lightweight model 37 and 38 and they still shoots good. They were some of my first carry guns in the 80's when I got my FL CCW.
I bet I've shot over 200 rounds of factory Winchester 158gr SWC-HP +P in each of my old lightweight model 37 and 38 and they still shoots good. They were some of my first carry guns in the 80's when I got my FL CCW.
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Yes it shouldn't be a problem. If I remember correctly the 115 grains are harder on the revolvers but don't hold me to that.
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Mannlicher
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:39 pm
My three inch model 60 has no problems with a zippy +P load using the Sierra 140 grain JHP.
If you ever shot and Super Vel 110 grain loads in a chief special of the 1960s vintage, you would not worry about today’s watered down +P 38 specials.
Not an issue in my view, but also not needed in my view.
The quality of today's .38 defensive loads makes them much better than even the .38 defensive loads of 25 years ago. And comparisons to cop loads (usually round-ball) going even longer back are even more grossly lopsided.
I don't think the trade off in flash, bang and snappiness for +P make sense for most people in a snubby .38. But if you see it differently, more power (literally) to you, and your gun should be fine. May you never need to find out about the effectiveness of any load.
The quality of today's .38 defensive loads makes them much better than even the .38 defensive loads of 25 years ago. And comparisons to cop loads (usually round-ball) going even longer back are even more grossly lopsided.
I don't think the trade off in flash, bang and snappiness for +P make sense for most people in a snubby .38. But if you see it differently, more power (literally) to you, and your gun should be fine. May you never need to find out about the effectiveness of any load.
“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.”
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NorincoKid
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:40 pm
- Location: Spring Hill, Hernando County
I've shot a handful of +p's out of my 60. Certainly zippy out of such a little gun.
There's +p's in it when I carry it. But I don't think I'd shoot them regularly with it. Probably couldn't to afford to anyways even if I wanted to.
FWIW my Model 60 is still my "go to" for many situations. I think its one of the best revolvers I've ever owner. Very fond of it.
There's +p's in it when I carry it. But I don't think I'd shoot them regularly with it. Probably couldn't to afford to anyways even if I wanted to.
FWIW my Model 60 is still my "go to" for many situations. I think its one of the best revolvers I've ever owner. Very fond of it.
The .38 Special
By Chuck Hawks
.38 Spec.
Illustration courtesy of Hornady Mfg. Co.
The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. It was introduced in 1902 by Smith & Wesson, and has since become a worldwide cartridge. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets.
The current SAAMI mean maximum pressure limit for the standard .38 Spec. is 17,000 psi. At this pressure, the .38 Spec. will drive a 158 grain lead bullet at a velocity of about 900 fps. The SAAMI pressure limit for today's .38 Spec. +P loads is 20,000 psi. +P loads can give the 158 grain lead bullet about 1000 fps.
The .38 Spec. is another of those cartridges with which I have had a lot of experience. 110 and 125 grain JHP bullets as factory loaded are the usual choice for personal defense. Medium pressure reloads using 125 grain bullets are a reasonable choice for plinking and small game hunting. The 140 grain Speer JHP bullet has generally provided better accuracy than the lighter bullets in my revolvers, and is my choice for all-around use. For target shooting, it is hard to beat a 148 grain wadcutter propelled by a light charge of Bullseye or W231 powder.
For general field use I handload the 140 grain Speer JHP bullet in front of 4.8 grains of W231 powder for a muzzle velocity of approximately 870 fps using CCI 500 primers. This bullet is very accurate in my Colts. At 25 yards this handload has about the same point of impact as the Winchester/USA "White Box" or UMC factory loads I also use for practice ammunition.
A good full power load for .38 Special +P revolvers uses the 140 grain Speer bullet in front of 7.0 grains of HS6 powder for a MV of 960 fps from a 6" revolver barrel. This load, taken from the Speer Reloading Manual Number 13, uses Speer cases and CCI 500 primers.
Note: A full length article about the .38 Special can be found on the Handgun Cartridges page.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/38special.htm
By Chuck Hawks
.38 Spec.
Illustration courtesy of Hornady Mfg. Co.
The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. It was introduced in 1902 by Smith & Wesson, and has since become a worldwide cartridge. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets.
The current SAAMI mean maximum pressure limit for the standard .38 Spec. is 17,000 psi. At this pressure, the .38 Spec. will drive a 158 grain lead bullet at a velocity of about 900 fps. The SAAMI pressure limit for today's .38 Spec. +P loads is 20,000 psi. +P loads can give the 158 grain lead bullet about 1000 fps.
The .38 Spec. is another of those cartridges with which I have had a lot of experience. 110 and 125 grain JHP bullets as factory loaded are the usual choice for personal defense. Medium pressure reloads using 125 grain bullets are a reasonable choice for plinking and small game hunting. The 140 grain Speer JHP bullet has generally provided better accuracy than the lighter bullets in my revolvers, and is my choice for all-around use. For target shooting, it is hard to beat a 148 grain wadcutter propelled by a light charge of Bullseye or W231 powder.
For general field use I handload the 140 grain Speer JHP bullet in front of 4.8 grains of W231 powder for a muzzle velocity of approximately 870 fps using CCI 500 primers. This bullet is very accurate in my Colts. At 25 yards this handload has about the same point of impact as the Winchester/USA "White Box" or UMC factory loads I also use for practice ammunition.
A good full power load for .38 Special +P revolvers uses the 140 grain Speer bullet in front of 7.0 grains of HS6 powder for a MV of 960 fps from a 6" revolver barrel. This load, taken from the Speer Reloading Manual Number 13, uses Speer cases and CCI 500 primers.
Note: A full length article about the .38 Special can be found on the Handgun Cartridges page.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/38special.htm