The Trump indictment

[Ricordo]

I'm not particularly a fan of President Trump. In a primary I'm voting for DeSantis. The mass media has already convicted him, some lawyers also (and not good ones). Color me shocked.

I predict that the indictments will be dismissed without going to trial. For further reference, check Article II of the Constitution and the Clinton case.

Here's a hint. All authority under the Constitution for executive power lies within the President. He determines (delegated or not) what is deemed classified or not and by merely "obtaining personal possession" of classified materials they are declassified. No "special" process required. Just take 'em with you.

Everything else is political theatre.

Yes, I'm an attorney since 1985. No, I don't argue about the law with non-lawyers, although I believe that everyone is entitled to express an opinion. I also don't hire an electrician to do plumbing work at my home. Or a plumber for electrical stuff.

[Ricordo]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii

and

https://casetext.com/case/judicial-watc ... ords-admin

[REDinFL]

I think the indictment by and large is a political sham. The same thing, done by other past presidents wouldn't be noticed. You've correctly cited the Constitution. But, I do not think all counts will be dismissed; he's "different." That said, he makes many of his own problems, particularly by not putting the brain in gear before engaging mouth. I'm also surprised he doesn't have better judgement picking people such as his own personal lawyers. It appears many of his problems come from his lawyers - Cohen, Trusty, and another (current one) whose name slips my mind. I don't expect an executive to DO everything, I expect him to select the right people and lead the "orchestra" or, to go along with your plumber/electrician comparison, be the general contractor. Another problem causing a count or two is he "showed" a classified document to someone, ostensibly not cleared for it. Did he show the person the contents, or just wave it in front to make a point - childish, but something he'd likely do.

Trump says he'll run anyway. That, of course, will split the party. While not a fan in totality of the party (I'm more inclined to use "The Party" in the "1984" sense, as that's what the system has become) I'd rather see the r's win than demos. But, a split party would virtually guarantee a demo win, whether Biden or some other stooge. Perot was right in 1992, but all he did was get us Slick Willie and the gift that keeps on giving, the Hildebeest. Yeah, Bush I was no prize, but....

[tector]

It's pure banana republic bullshit, regardless of anyone's opinion of Trump.

As an aside, since Red mentioned Trump's lawyers, I'd like to know WTF has happened to the attorney-client privilege. I realize there is a crime-fraud exception for ongoing offenses (and, separately, for the lawyer to defend himself against allegations from his former client), but from what I've seen those don't fit.

[Ricordo]

A typical New Yorker, President Trump believes that words left unsaid is not the best approach to anything. In contrast, I've been handling firearms since 1971 and believed and still believe that, at times, the best shot is the one not taken. But go tell him that he should shut up at times. Trust me, Gentlemen, he is a defense lawyer's worst nightmare.

Again, kindly allow me. The incident with the military plan that he disclosed happened in 2021. He was no longer President, but the document(s) was in his possession. The Clinton case revisited. Political theatre. Let me put it another way. When dealing with classified information you are dealing with two parts of the same equation. For example, here in LOL a "biker" died many years ago (btw, this area is filled with "ghosts"). After his death, his family ventured to say that he was a "cleaner" for an alphabet agency. No specifics, details, just the nature of his work. He obviously told his immediate family. Espionage? Hardly think so. A release of classified information? But if he had been President of the United States of America, he could have provided the specifics. Politically advantageous and prudent? Hardly think so. Proper and legal? Check the Clinton case.

Again, non-lawyers don't know about the law. They might have an idea or two, but no one can say that they are well-versed in the law. President Trump did what a non-lawyer would do and say. Even though, at times, he thinks he's also a lawyer. "Lawyer knows best" starring Robert Young... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046600/

And yes, there is also a big problem with the attorney-client privilege. Everything is muddied by the intent to ellicit a political advantage to a proceeding such as this one. But try to tell President Trump that he needs to shut the f**k up! See where that gets you.

[Flame Red]

This is just old Soviet style Kabuki Theater, and will provide the Kommie puppet master with the result they desire. The Kommies have it well mastered. Elections no longer matter, and the Kommies will remain in charge.

This indictment provides the hope to the Kommies that The Donald will get the orange jump suit photo that the Hildbest and Obomination never received. The media will now have news to feed their 24 propaganda cycle and provides cover to continue to hide The Crime Family's recent revelations.The Kommies have other indictments in the works for The Donald in the queue for future use to keep piling it on.

The only good thing is that The Donald will NOT be given the Hillary treatment of assassination like so many others. The Kommies use The Donald as a whipping boy, so he is too valuable to terminate. Unlike how Stalin would have handled it. They have a lot invested in creating the Orange Monster to have him end up "committing suicide".

Bidumb will never be convicted if impeached, and the media will not cover any impeachment proceedings whatsoever.

Elections don't matter as the Kommies will just keep counting the votes in the Kommie controlled jurisdictions that will win them the Electoral College. Note, I did not say Bidumb will end up being elected. I suspect they will end up putting in Kommala or some other mentally empty vessel so she can reign for 10 years if she takes over after Jan 20th, 2024. She will just do what she is told like Bidumb.



You hear Komrad Newsom now proposes the 28th Amendment to ban firearms by revoking the 2nd amendment. I am waiting for the Kommies to revoke the 22nd Amendment so that their puppet can remain in control forever like Roosevelt.

[Ricordo]

Not only that, Emperor Newsom is blaming the GOP for the paradise that his state has become. Trump said it best, they are not going after him, they are coming after you.

Don't wave the white flag, if you can vote, vote.

That being said, DeSantis can politically turn the wave, I don't know if he has realized that. And it does not include attacking President Trump. He just has to be smart and politically savvy about it. Simple as this for me, DeSantis in a primary. If Trump wins, then Trump. No other option.

[Chigger]

Again, non-lawyers don't know about the law.

I disagree with you. There are non lawyers who know more about law than some lawyers. I see it in business everyday. Business owners being threatened with suits from ambulance chasers who's clients are just looking for free money. Business owners who are threatened with breech of contract when there was no breech. These business owners know the law and refuse to be blackmailed or turn the suit over to the insurance company for settlement. And most of the ones I know have made the suits go away without engaging a lawyer.

See herein lies the problem that the UK has solved in its courts. Anyone can file a suit here and even if they lose, court cost and attorney fees are not necessarily awarded. You lose in the UK, you pay. It cuts down on the bullshit suits.

I myself in the 90's was threatened by a clients attorney because I refused to do more more work for him because the client was a pain in the ass and all previous contracts had been fulfilled. I laughed that attorney right out of my office.
My daughter works in a prestigious law firm mostly doing patent law, but the office practices most all law. The stories I hear about lawyers from different firms acting like roosters in the hens house makes me laugh.

Life is black and white but only painters and lawyers can make it shades of gray.

You may very well be one of the good lawyers, I don't know you. But most lawyers are a plague of society.

I personally know a lawyer who is representing trump on other matters and he hates him. Truly hates him. He's a died in the wool democrat who is personal friends with all the democrat leaders for decades ago, the ones trump used to be friends with. But the excuse is, he pays me money. Now do you think that lawyer is really giving him the best he could do being the hatred he has for trump? The answer is no. Sorry lawyers are human too.

[Ricordo]

But most lawyers are a plague of society.

My wife, an ex-lawyer, thinks so too. Main reason why she quit the profession.

That being said, think about the following. Why is President Trump so "unlucky" when choosing legal counsel? Or in keeping persons near him that don't seem to have his best interest in mind? Or executive appointments that turn out being "disloyal"? Or not discharging people of their duties when everybody else in the room knows that they don't fit?

I can suggest this, without having personal knowledge of his psyche or animus. The problem lies not with the people he chooses. The problem lies with the client, i.e., him. The one that chooses them.

And it doesn't seem he realizes that... still. Some people can be their own worst enemy.
But yeah, try telling that to him, straight to his face.

[mikem]

And yes, there is also a big problem with the attorney-client privilege. Everything is muddied by the intent to ellicit a political advantage to a proceeding such as this one. But try to tell President Trump that he needs to shut the f**k up! See where that gets you.

Is there attorney-client privilege when a person communicates with an attorney to conceal or further a crime? For example, when Trump lied when saying he'd disclosed all of the documents while having his "body man" (i hate that term) move boxes, does that dissolve attorney client privilidge?

Obviously, I'm not an attorney. I'm genuinely curious.

Also, has anyone here read the indictment?