Florida Shooters Network

So if I say that I am sitting on 6 pistol lowers, do I get a handful of stamps? Those 3 for $99 either Anderson or PSA lowers would be handy for this.

lighteye wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:38 am So if I say that I am sitting on 6 pistol lowers, do I get a handful of stamps? Those 3 for $99 either Anderson or PSA lowers would be handy for this.

No. I believe they want to see pre Friday the 13th dated photos of assembled braced pistols for the “free upgrade”. GARY.

If you’re unaware of what these devices are and why they’re important, you may be asking yourself, “What is a pistol brace?”

A pistol brace, also known as a stabilizing brace or an arm brace, is a device mounted to the rear of a firearm (typically, a pistol) designed to anchor the gun to the shooter’s arm, helping them shoot it one-handed.

The first pistol brace was invented in 2012 by Alex Bosco. His intended purpose was to help a disabled veteran shoot his AR-15 pistol more accurately. He later founded SB Tactical and partnered with SIG Sauer to sell the first braces on the open market. Due to this partnership, they were also called SIG braces.

Most pistol braces feature one of two stabilizing devices: a soft loop fastener or a stabilizing fin.

Loop fastener braces feature a hole in which the shooter can insert their arm until the hand reaches the pistol grip. After getting a comfortable grip on the pistol grip, the shooter may tighten the straps around the loop to stabilize the gun properly before shooting.

Braces featuring stabilizing fins (also called blades) are intended to provide a solid anchoring point for the elbow pit. These fins or blades are typically flexible to account for the arm’s curvature. All the shooter needs to do is hold the pistol grip tightly and ensure the fin blade rests solidly against the shooter’s forearm or elbow pit.

Why Do These Devices Matter?

On paper, pistol braces are supposed to help disabled or impaired shooters use pistols more comfortably, especially when a two-handed grip is not an option.

However, these devices have garnered a lot of attention since they hit the market for other reasons, such as their resemblance to shoulder stocks and the fact braces mount to the same location as stocks would on AR-15 pistols and equivalent platforms.

According to the law, installing a stock on a pistol or rifle with a barrel length of less than 16” turns it into a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR). SBRs are heavily regulated, requiring civilians to file registration paperwork (ATF Form 1), pay a $200 tax stamp, and wait for approval from the agency before legally owning one.

When Alex Bosco invented the first brace, he first had to seek a letter of approval from the ATF to ensure these devices are not shoulder stocks. The ATF determined that because braces are made of soft, rubbery materials, they do not qualify as shoulder stocks.

Shouldering the brace

Now that you know what a pistol brace is, an equally important question you should ask yourself is, “What is a pistol brace not intended for?”

Firearms media, and especially many prominent YouTube gun channels, started giving the device a lot of attention as soon as it hit the market. Many shooters recorded themselves shouldering the brace as a stock, effectively treating braced AR-15 pistols as if they were short-barreled rifles.

Although not as comfortable as real stocks, shouldering braces appeared to allow shooters to get around SBR laws, with many gun channels treating the matter with a certain amount of disdain or irreverence toward the ATF.

The situation led the ATF to issue a letter in 2015 stating that the mere act of shouldering a pistol brace constituted a redesign of the device into a shoulder stock, transforming an otherwise legal pistol into an SBR.

The gun community and the gun industry both reacted with ire, questioning the legitimacy of reclassifying a device based on its use (or misuse). Nevertheless, the situation regarding pistol braces remained unchanged for about two years, leaving them in a state of legal uncertainty.

In 2017, the ATF clarified its position on pistol braces in a follow-up letter, confirming that installing a brace does not, in itself, turn a pistol into an SBR, nor does “incidental, sporadic, or situational use” from a “firing position at or near the shoulder.”

Nonetheless, the community interpreted this specific wording to mean that, although not illegal, the practice is officially discouraged by the ATF. In response, content creators effectively ceased shouldering the braces whenever they featured them in videos and other media.

In 2020, draft ATF documents surfaced on the internet, with a rulemaking proposal to reclassify firearms fitted with shoulder braces as NFA items, which would make them as heavily regulated as SBRs or silencers.

The proposal became open for comment on the federal register between December 18, 2020, and January 1, 2021, garnering over 300,000 views. These documents led the industry to issue a response once again, heavily criticizing the proposal.

First, the usual caveat: the whole NFA/ATF scheme is a bunch of unconstitutional communist bullshit. Now, onward:

This shit has just begun.

Just last week the 5th CCA struck down the TRUMP era bump stock ban by the ATF--so that's going back more than 2 years right there. And of course that is likely not the end of that issue. Could easily be another year, or more.

Last's summer's Supreme Court ruling on adminstrative rulemaking (the EPA case) could also alter the rules of the game.

It would not surprise me in the least if some "conservative" distirct court judge issued a nationwide injuction on this ATF action within the next few weeks. While I am generally against this "nationwide injunction" bullshit, until the Left stops using them (they picked Trump to death with them), I ain't gonna cry about it if it happens.

Accepting the terms of the debate (which, again, I don't), the thing is these braces DO have legit uses for people with disabilities--a group, I might add, that disproporationately includes veterans who served this country. A bump stock is pretty much a gimmick for everyone. Not so with braces.

I will also add for every one of us here on a gun forum, there are probably at least 10 gun owners who don't go to such forums. Two of my closest friends--own several guns each, never go to gun forums. These braced psitols have been popular for several years now--all kinds of people snapped them up over that time and are going to be at risk in 4 months if this "ban" is not rescinded. This is an esoteric technical issue (hence all the questions here, among generally attentive gun owners), unlike say crippled mag legislation (note: legislation, not ATF rulemaking), which gets widely reported even in the general press (see, for example, what is going on in Oregon right now).

Stay tuned.

But how many disabled people have you seen at the range using the brace as it was designed to be used by a disabled person. I’ve not seen any, but I’ve seen plenty of healthy young people shooting braced pistols just like they had a SBR. This is what the Gov’t objected to. You want a SBR, buy a stamp. And now the people who use one like a SBR have ruined it for legit disabled people with one arm. GARY.

N4KVE wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:24 pm But how many disabled people have you seen at the range using the brace as it was designed to be used by a disabled person. I’ve not seen any, but I’ve seen plenty of healthy young people shooting braced pistols just like they had a SBR. This is what the Gov’t objected to. You want a SBR, buy a stamp. And now the people who use one like a SBR have ruined it for legit disabled people with one arm. GARY.

First of all, I didn't say that they were used predominately by the disabled, only that they ARE used by the disabled. That is not in dispute. 95%+ of the people who use a wheelchair ramp at any business are not in a wheelchair--it doesn't mean those ramps aren't useful for people in wheelchairs.

Second, just because the executive branch of "our" government "objects" to something is not necessarily a rational basis under the law--that is to be determined. The ATF, particulary under this regime, are a bunch of commie cocksuckers, so their "objections" don't necessarily mean shit. Again, see the bump stock decision from the 5th CCA just about a week ago.

You seem to have swallowed regime narratives and logic wholesale--too bad for you, but not necessarily binding on the rest of us.

flcracker wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:37 pm

zeebaron wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:53 pm Welp, there are still pistol buffer tubes with foam on them (like https://www.righttobear.com/tactical-sp ... -pt01-set/) for AR's anyway. Bet those will sell like hotcakes for a while as people swap them out.

Before there were pistol braces, we all used foam covers and crutch tips. We never felt disadvantaged for not having invented pistol braces yet.

Crutch tips...obvious, but I never thought of that.

Found this site with a few handy ideas: https://blowback9.wordpress.com/2021/06 ... ce-option/

I guess we could all lose our tennis balls in a tragic boating accident...

tector wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:42 pm You seem to have swallowed regime narratives and logic wholesale--too bad for you, but not necessarily binding on the rest of us.

Not quite. I own two SBR’s that I properly obtained by purchasing two stamps before the brace loophole existed. So then a few years later people who are not disabled figure they can use a brace to avoid the SBR stamp. So I wasted my $400? Imagine if you were left $ by a relative who died, & you blew it at Vito’s on a few FA weapons. You take delivery, & a few weeks later the “list” is declared illegal, new guns can be added, & suddenly an AR is $500, & the $200 stamp, & $100 for the FA parts. You’d feel pretty bad that what you spent $65K for, & was a great deal at the time, is now $2000. How would Vito feel as he watched his million dollar inventory shrink to 1/10 the value. If I gotta buy a stamp for my SBR, then so does every body. GARY.

Gary, you have said way more than enough. Stop.

Anyone who would be pissed off if the machine gun registry was declared unconstitutional is a either a fucking Communist or a self-absorbed douche.

People have invested in all kinds of things that were later greatly reduced in value due to government action, new technologies, acts of God, etc. That that would be your first thought about eliminating these unjustified, onerous laws on American gun owners is really, really telling--all in ways that are not flattering to you.

To move beyond self-serving wanking, let's imagine a different regulatory approach:

The ATF grandfathers all AR pistol brace set-ups purchased before June 1, 2023--after that date they are not allowed without going through the SBR paperwork. PRESTO, you magically avoid creating tens of thousands of new felons--which is EXACTLY what is going to happen if this bullshit stands.

Again, I think the whole ATF regulatory scheme is unjust, but plainly this simple adjustment solves at least one major problem.

N4KVE wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:24 pm But how many disabled people have you seen at the range using the brace as it was designed to be used by a disabled person. I’ve not seen any, but I’ve seen plenty of healthy young people shooting braced pistols just like they had a SBR. This is what the Gov’t objected to. You want a SBR, buy a stamp. And now the people who use one like a SBR have ruined it for legit disabled people with one arm. GARY.

As I have Parkinson's I do indeed use a brace for a disability reason. I am sure I am not alone but that said I am also sure the number of people with the disabilities is a small percentage of the brace users.