Florida Shooters Network

flanc wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 6:09 am

flcracker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:23 pm …One might wonder what sort of environmental liability or lead removal/cleanup responsibilities a new owner may inherit by purchasing a defunct shooting range.

Any cleanup will be liability of the seller unless FL state law allows for buyer to assume legal liability for cleanup (which would involve buyer entering into an Agreement w state of FL) and I would be surprised if FL law did so.

I imagine lawyers (as well as re brokers) have advised seller (whether individual or estate) of ^that^ and the eye opening price reflects the sellers desire to pay for cleanup, as a condition of the sale …

IANAL but rather a former member of multiple clubs and ranges in which someone - always other than the buyer - got stuck with lead cleanup and associate costs BEFORE either sale went to settlement or, the buyer was ever granted use & occupancy.

Some of the unfortunate legal battles (or even cordial wranglings, when the buyer(s) wanted the land in question that bad) which ensued enlightened many of us Gun club / shooting range members and officers to facts state “cleanup” laws are written to cover mainly parcels that previously had things like gas stations or other commercial enterprises which often resulted in ground contamination via chemicals vs lead.

As soon as the new owner fires a single bullet downrange, the "innocent party" defense under clean up laws is gone and the new owner is liable for cleanup.

The new owner can sue the prior owner as a potentially responsible party, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any money there as it will be a dry hole.

philasteen wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 9:50 am As soon as the new owner fires a single bullet downrange, the "innocent party" defense under clean up laws is gone and the new owner is liable for cleanup.

The new owner can sue the prior owner as a potentially responsible party, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any money there as it will be a dry hole.

What's that? The previous owner is a "dry hole?" What are you saying?

cvasqu03 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 4:22 pm

philasteen wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 9:50 am As soon as the new owner fires a single bullet downrange, the "innocent party" defense under clean up laws is gone and the new owner is liable for cleanup.

The new owner can sue the prior owner as a potentially responsible party, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any money there as it will be a dry hole.

What's that? The previous owner is a "dry hole?" What are you saying?

LOL. If we are talking about Sharon, a very bi polar dry hole.

Molivo wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 12:42 pm

Legio wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:53 am

Outgunu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:37 amHa, ha, funny guys, I personally always thought Sharon was nasty, and never understood why Moe and the mods took up for her until they didn't.

I don't recall Moe or the Mods doing this. Not me for sure. I had enough troubles with her to stand by her. Must have been before my time.

There was some that did defend her. I think more so because of her late husband then her

Honestly, probably hard to find a nicer, more decent human than Dean Bishop. Was always nice to me, and everyone else, and really went out of his way to offer a range option besides the safety nazis at Markham. He wasn't doing it for the money, he was doing it because he was a really decent person and he probably had to endure a lot of idiots with guns.

When I learned he was sick, it really made me feel terrible and not because I thought "but what will become of the range", I remember wishing there was something I could do for him, but it wasn't the kind of illness that could be fixed by nice thoughts. He really deserved better but life isn't fair.

Sharon on the other hand was almost completely the opposite. She viewed the range and FSN as nothing more than a source of income and free labor to clean up her property. She made all kinds of promises, none of which were kept. Some people even got a view of the business end of a shotgun when they tried to use their hard earned "range privileges." After helping clean up and secure the property, in exchange for range access I went there one day and found the fence I helped put up with a key lock rather than a combo, I went home and never went back.

Add in all the illegal activity that she had going on from drug sales and related things and it's probably a good thing I didn't bring my collection of NFA weapons down there anymore.

cvasqu03 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 4:22 pm

philasteen wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 9:50 am As soon as the new owner fires a single bullet downrange, the "innocent party" defense under clean up laws is gone and the new owner is liable for cleanup.

The new owner can sue the prior owner as a potentially responsible party, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any money there as it will be a dry hole.

What's that? The previous owner is a "dry hole?" What are you saying?

Meaning there will be minimal or no assets to go after from the prior owner, so the new owner will end up responsible for the entire cost of the cleanup. Essentially if you buy the land and shoot on it you are taking all of the risk.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dry%20hole

philasteen wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 6:00 pm

cvasqu03 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 4:22 pm

philasteen wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 9:50 am As soon as the new owner fires a single bullet downrange, the "innocent party" defense under clean up laws is gone and the new owner is liable for cleanup.

The new owner can sue the prior owner as a potentially responsible party, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any money there as it will be a dry hole.

What's that? The previous owner is a "dry hole?" What are you saying?

Meaning there will be minimal or no assets to go after from the prior owner, so the new owner will end up responsible for the entire cost of the cleanup. Essentially if you buy the land and shoot on it you are taking all of the risk.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dry%20hole

OK, so somebody has no sense of humor.