Should gun owners fear the deep state?

[dammitgriff]

James Bovard doesn’t trust the bastards:
http://jimbovard.com/blog/2018/08/10/gu ... eep-state/
“Gun owners who are confident that they will have no problems with the authorities should recognize how quickly government officials can shift the lines defining licit and illicit conduct.”

[P5 Guy]

Nothing guarantees any government will stay benevolent like armed citizens, and even then government will still play all the tricks the people allow.

[Deputydave]

Everyone who is a free, critical thinker should fear the deep state.

[Grip Hugger]

deep state
noun
a body of people, typically influential members of government agencies or the military, believed to be involved in the secret manipulation or control of government policy.
"the deep state and its policy of allowing extremist ideologies to flourish may be the actual issues of concern"
Yes concern.

[jjk308]

Take a look at the UK where the permanent civil service is the "Deep State" because they have so few political appointees. They keep up a continuation of policies regardless of who gets elected.

In the USA the worst problem is in the law enforcement and intelligence agencies because of the long training and career dedication required. And in the DOJ to a lesser extent, but there its easier to hire new experienced lawyers. Other agencies are much more tightly controlled by a substantial number of political appointees at the top, for better or worse. For example, in the DOD McNamara managed to ram through the TFX/F-111 program over the objections of the Navy, civilians and officers both, and refused to give it up until long after the Navy version was proven a failure.

I believe the only possible solution is instilling in the standing bureaucracy a "keep out of politics" culture. They need to keep in mind, always, that there's a big divide between their professional responsibilities and their beliefs about any particular politician or party. The Never Trumpers involved in the current mess need to be severely disciplined, punished as an example for the civil service of the future.

[Firemedic2000]

Yes look at how the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS has controll of our justice system right now to further the LEFT WING SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS ADGENDA.

Look at how the Sheriff used the SYG law in the recent shooting to use against innocient Floridians gun rights. One of the most AntiGun TOP COPS in FLORIDA. He could have arrested that man and let the courts do their job. But instead used it as a political weapon.

I've shot with officers from that county and that Sheriff hires like minded officers. They do not believe you, I or any American should hsve access to guns. Also remember this Sheriff tried to get guns banned several years back. But Florida law stopped him

Jj is absolutely right Law Enforcement Agencies are our greatest concern. But remember also there are wayyyy more of us than them.

These SOCIALIST anti CONSTITUTIONAL thugs are drawing a line in the sand like no time in history. I've never seen anything like this in my life time. Elected officials openly attacking the CONSTITUTION and American law. Here's what he thinks of Florida gun owners and he's not alone in his thinking.

https://www.thegunwriter.com/19914/pine ... -carriers/

[randian]

I believe the only possible solution is instilling in the standing bureaucracy a "keep out of politics" culture. They need to keep in mind, always, that there's a big divide between their professional responsibilities and their beliefs about any particular politician or party. The Never Trumpers involved in the current mess need to be severely disciplined, punished as an example for the civil service of the future.

There is only one way to do that: reinstall the patronage system. It was abandoned because progressives pushed the idea that making them permanent employees would create an "independent", "less corrupt", and "more professional" bureaucracy. That lie was bought hook, line, and sinker. The exact opposite happened, since now that they can't be fired they can pursue the progressive agenda at will and ignore the political side of government (Congress and the President).

The benefit of the patronage system is that current employees have to be at least somewhat responsive to what the new regime wants if they want to keep their jobs. To the extent that the new regime is responsive to the voters that installed them, that makes the bureaucracy more responsive to the will of the voters. If the bureaucracy is totally intransigent, as many in the Federal government are now, they can be replaced wholesale.

[dammitgriff]

300,000 gun owners in South Africa became criminals overnight with the passage of new laws.
If anyone doesn’t believe that can happen here, they’re only fooling themselves.

[Firemedic2000]

300,000 gun owners in South Africa became criminals overnight with the passage of new laws.
If anyone doesn’t believe that can happen here, they’re only fooling themselves.

Your absolutely correct. Now knowing the people I know. You knowing the people you do. We'd be criminals only in the government's eyes.

There are millions I bet that would not agree with who the NEW DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY DEEMS TO BE CRIMINALS. I mean after all this party does not believe in AMERICA'S CONSTITUTION and BILL of RIGHTS and that's their words not mine.

I'd bet everything I own if what you posted were to happen and I'll say it. There would be one hell of a war take place the moment the first person was killed/murdered illegally disarming them.

Because no law can take away a right. THE BILL OF RIGHTS ONLY GIVE NOTICE TO THE GOVERNMENT AND BAICALLY MAKES THEM AWARE OF OUR RIGHTS. IT DOES NOT GRANT OUR RIGHTS. IT RECOGNIZES THEM.

But remember this DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY is attempting the exact samething, acting the exact same way towards everyone that does not think like them, act like them, vote like them ect..ect..and with the blessing of their DEMOCRAT SOCIALIST POLITICAL LEADERS attack INNOCIENT AMERICANS. Sound familar it should.

Because this DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY that calls us NAZIS. They are acting exactly like the NAZIS SOCIALIST PARTY that attempted to take over Europe and murdered millions.

BUT REMEMBER ONE THING. THE FIRST THING ANY GOVERNMENT/ CONTROLLING PARTY DOES BEFORE IT TAKES OVER IT'S PEOPLE AND ITS GOVERNMENT. IT TOTALLY DISARMS EVERY CITIZEN SO THEY CAN NOT FIGHT BACK.

What has this DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY been attempting do above all else. What has been their top priority above all else. To the point they have become belligerent about it. They lie, makeup false reports, false numbers false everything. THIS DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY MUST DISARM AMERICA AND THEY WILL NEVER STOP TRYING. THEY KNOW THEY CAN NEVER TAKE OVER AN ARMED PEOPLE.

But the LEFT WING SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS would have you believe that conservative AMERICANS will just lay down and SURRENDER. Because we do not believe in anything. That we are a bunch of lazy bible thumpers with guns. That we are all over weight fat and could not fight to save our life for anything.

But again here they go saying a person with a little weight or that has some age to them or anything is useless. Sounds just like a SOCIALIST DOESN'T. Kinda scary to. Because if they think your useless what would they do with you.

They believe that UNLIKE THEM WE'D NOT BE WILLING TO SACRIFICE ANYTHING. I SAY THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SACRIFICE IS OR MEANS. THEY'VE NEVER SACRIFICED ANYTHING.

THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHO'S POT THEY ARE STIRRING. WE ARE QUITE PEOPLE BECAUSE WE RESPECT PEOPLES RIGHTS. BUT LIKE THE OLD ADAGE GOES.

DON'T TREAD ON US. BECAUSE YOU MOST CERTAINLY WE BE BITTEN AND DIE.

It's hard for us down here to understand what those up North have experienced. Because these animals have not transgressed here yet like they have in their protected Northern regions. Maybe they fear the South.

But be clear, they will come and with them their attacks and trangressions against INNOCIENT AMERICANS. Only then will we truely understand how bad this LEFT WING SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY is.

But at least we can fight back, where as our Northern brothers are hampered by corrupt local governments with their corrupt laws. That favor these animals more than the innocient AMERICANS they harm.

[jjk308]

I believe the only possible solution is instilling in the standing bureaucracy a "keep out of politics" culture. They need to keep in mind, always, that there's a big divide between their professional responsibilities and their beliefs about any particular politician or party. The Never Trumpers involved in the current mess need to be severely disciplined, punished as an example for the civil service of the future.

There is only one way to do that: reinstall the patronage system. It was abandoned because progressives pushed the idea that making them permanent employees would create an "independent", "less corrupt", and "more professional" bureaucracy. That lie was bought hook, line, and sinker. The exact opposite happened, since now that they can't be fired they can pursue the progressive agenda at will and ignore the political side of government (Congress and the President).

The benefit of the patronage system is that current employees have to be at least somewhat responsive to what the new regime wants if they want to keep their jobs. To the extent that the new regime is responsive to the voters that installed them, that makes the bureaucracy more responsive to the will of the voters. If the bureaucracy is totally intransigent, as many in the Federal government are now, they can be replaced wholesale.

Oh? Read, or listen to (free at Librevox.com) :
Plunkitt of Tammany Hall: A Series of Very Plain Talks on Very Practical Politics
by William L. Riordan
""I seen my opportunities and I took 'em.", George Washington Plunkitt of Tamminy Hall.
There's good graft and bad graft according to Plunkitt.
This book is from the days of patronage. ALL of Tammany Hall's corrupt political power was based on controlling the vote by patronage. The bureaucracy was "responsive" to the voters only because the voters were controlled by access to those bureaucratic jobs and contracts. Which, of course, the voters were really paying for themselves.